Posts by Doubting Bro

33

Is it wrong of me to think of the GB, the Writing Department, Bethelites, Pioneers, as moochers, and leeching bloodsuckers?

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i'm exhausted right now.

it's been a very long day.

both physically, and mentally, althought the latter otweighted the former by tons.

Doubting Bro

I certainly agree with you regarding the CO level and above. To james_woods point, I have seen some COs do the best they could to minimize expenses and I've also seen COs spend lots of money on weekly expenses even though they knew the average JW in that particular congo was hurting financially. Interestingly enough, the COs who were disliked by the BOE the most ended up being the ones who spent the most money. Obviously, their lack of caring the the publishers and elders showed up in both how they treated the members and how they treated the members money.

MLE is totally right about elders hating the COs visit. Now, I just relax and laugh as I watch them walk on eggshells for a week!!

What I think is even more ironic is that JWs claim there is no clergy/laity distinction, that everyone works and supports themselves, yet you have COs/DOs/Bethel heavies up to and including the GB who don't work at ALL.

I can tell you from personal experience that even loyal JWs take note of this situation and have some level of resentment. Especially against COs who come twice a year, tell them what losers they are, what bad parents they are and how they're letting Jehovah down and then hop in their nice leased Buicks and drive away.

I would love to see the WTS eliminate the CO position just to see these guys taken down a peg and have to actually work for a living.

22

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-21-10 WT Study (LEADER CHRIST)

by blondie in

jw
friends

review comments will be headed by comments.

of the congregation on earth.

holy spirit...not through the gb?.

Doubting Bro

I'm so glad I didn't go yesterday. I couldn't believe they would have the audacity to say in paragraph 1 that other religions look to human leaders like the pope, etc and JWs don't but yet say that following the GB is the same as following Jesus. Yet, that's exactly what other religions claim as well. That's so bold. I wonder if the writing committee is seeing just how far they can push this long?

Also, did you note that it didn't say follwing the "faithful and discreet slave class" but rather just the GB? They've marginalized the folks that claim to be annointed already but have not said that only the GB is the FDS although that's been implied for years. It seems like they're finally at the point where people are comfortable with it and will continue the practice of making the two interchangable.

38

Is there a such thing as a perfect weekend when you're a Jehovah's Witness?

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i'm venting a little bit, just a smidgen anyway.

i might not remember this thread tommorrow, as i just popped the ambien, and i'm waiting for it kick in so i can hit the sack.

i wanted to post this before my brain goes haywire.

Doubting Bro

MLE - great topic. When I was a true believer I have to say when I look back, most of my perfect weekends involved skipping JW activities. There was nothing better than a Thursday afternoon snow storm. I live in an area that gets snow once or twice a year but doesn't deal with it very well. Ideally, it would start snowing around 4:30 - 5pm. So, it wasn't too bad getting home but the phone lines would be heated up with conversation over cancelling the meeting. The best was when it was canceled, I had a part but was waiting until I got home from work on Thursday evening to throw it together.

Hopefully, if the snow was say 6-10 inches, it would certainly cancel service and likely cancel the Sunday meeting. Then we would spend the whole weekend eating, drinking and hanging out with my wife. Sometimes, we would get together with a few more couples in the area (yeah, we could drive to their house but it was too bad to go to the meetings).

There were times that sharing in JW activities were part of a good weekend. Spring cleaning at the hall was always fun (seriously). Occasionally you'd get a positive response in service and that would provide a high for a little while. For me, giving PTs provided happiness especially if you were traveling to a new congo. The pats on the back are good for the ego.

But, mostly, it was we "have" to go in service, we "have" to go to meetings, I "have" to do a sheparding call or worse, we "have" to have the quarterly elders meeting. Often returning from service, I would feel bad because I felt like it was a waste of time. Now, I know it is!!!

Now, I still make appearances, but like this weekend I didn't go in service, I didn't go to the meeting. Just did some stuff around the house and watched football. In some ways, that was perfect!!

I know your position is tough and I agree that limiting your friendships inside the hall is probably the best move. Maybe you can hang with some folks at work, neighbors or someone from your gym? Baby steps!!

96

Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org

by eric356 in

ive been thinking about the future of the watchtower organization and the challenges it faces in coming decades.

its difficult to address the issue without allowing personal feelings affect the analysis.

many people seem to think that the society will collapse fairly soon, based mostly on the fact that the person dislikes the leadership or cant understand how others can believe the doctrine.

Doubting Bro

Soldier77 - I believe it was last year they merged Alaska into the US branch and this 9-1, Hawaii also came under the US branch. I think also last year, they moved the Turks & Caicos islands under the US branch.

96

Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org

by eric356 in

ive been thinking about the future of the watchtower organization and the challenges it faces in coming decades.

its difficult to address the issue without allowing personal feelings affect the analysis.

many people seem to think that the society will collapse fairly soon, based mostly on the fact that the person dislikes the leadership or cant understand how others can believe the doctrine.

Doubting Bro

streets76 - I know the board has discussed the LDS model and I think that's a great example of how a wacky, high control sort of religion can reinvent themselves to be more mainstream, maintain high retention levels, and make tons of money yet still keep most of their non-mainstream beliefs. Their polygamy issue is similar to the WTS blood teaching. It's something so wacky that it offends the mainstream public.

If GB 2.0 was smart, they would move in this direction. But eric brings out a good point that throws a wrentch in the works. They think the speak for God, that God is using them directly and approves of the current structure. So, the changes they've made from a doctrinal standpoint have had no way out. The positive (from a business standpoint) changes had more to do with their printing operations, consolidating branches and the like. That was low hanging fruit.

There's still some of that to be had (pushing printing of KMs and study WTs to the congo level via pdf files, dumping the awake, etc) but they will run out of those types of profit improvements in the next 5-10 years. Will they drastically transform? It's kind of interesting to watch but remember, they'll do what they need to do to survive.

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

Doubting Bro

When did "faithful and discreet slave" become a title? It's not a title no more so than the "rich man" in Jesus' parable about the rich man and Lazarus is a title.

Since you're such an expert in English, clearly you realize that Jesus' parable about the rich man or about a group being a faithful slave is descriptive in the Bible. However, the WT capitalizes the pharse Faithful and Discreet Slave in their publications. So, by capitalizing they are making it a title.

As for the generation thing, you certainly put a lot of words out there to attempt to explain such a simple concept. Under your line of reasoning (and the WTS) I am of the same generation as my great grandfather because my life overlapped about 12 years or so with his. He was born in 1890.

Elderelite asks a vaild question. If the fulfillment of Matt 24 was a duel prophesy which had it's first fulfillment in the days leading up to 70 AD which resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem and it's second fulfillment starting in 1914, why doesn't the timeframe match up. Maybe not exactly to the day, but certainly within a similar frame. The fact is that it's been 96 years, more than twice the amount of time. So, either Jesus meant one thing in 33 AD (or CE if you perfer) and something totally different in 1914, or the 1914 date is inaccurate.

Why would Jesus change the meaning of such an easily understood term?

96

Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org

by eric356 in

ive been thinking about the future of the watchtower organization and the challenges it faces in coming decades.

its difficult to address the issue without allowing personal feelings affect the analysis.

many people seem to think that the society will collapse fairly soon, based mostly on the fact that the person dislikes the leadership or cant understand how others can believe the doctrine.

Doubting Bro

I agree with your analysis eric356. In addition to point 4, the retention rate among young JWs is horrific with them losing over 60% according to Pew. So not only are they facing a brain drain in terms of a diversity of experience that adult converts would bring, but they're facing an aging population. Couple that with trend among the 2nd and 3rd generation JW males to not "reach out" and you're looking at the low level leadership positions of elders getting older and older by the day. They'll need to adjust to that as well. I think that's why they consolidated the book study.

neverending - I agree that what you've described certainly could happen but that will depend on who the move onto the GB. Right now there are what, 8 members? I think this is the lowest number in 30 years. They will likely appoint some more, maybe after Barr dies. The new appointees could change the dynamic. But, in order for your senario to play out (in my opinion) is to have someone very creative like Franz. And, that's really what upper level management in the WTS is sorely lacking. Just take a look at the latest "generation" teaching. It's so backward that it really doesn't make sense to even the most devoted JWs. Now, Franz was nuts, but at least when you read his work, it was at least creative in a kind of conspiracy theory sort of way. Wacky but with just enough logic that some would buy it!

I continue to believe that while the WTS will look much different in 20 years, they will still be around reeking havoc.

51

My Dad's passing

by happyexjw in

quite a while ago i wrote about my dad who has been living with prostate cancer for 13 years with secondry bone cancer for the last 2 years.

we all thought he was going to leave us back in april when he had a bad chest infection.

i was talking about wanting to be able to say some words at his funeral.

Doubting Bro

My deepest condolences. It's crazy that your uncle and aunt are acting that way and to me shows just how much this religion can amplify someone's naturally bad tendencies. Interestingly enough, they act the exact way that they claim those "in the world" act. I'm especially thinking of 2 Tim 3 where it says that in the "last days" folks would act poorly and one of the things listed was "no natural affection" (vs 3).

How can they justify treating anyone that badly when their own religion (on paper at least) tells them to comfort those grieving? There's even an exception (can't remember where - don't have the WTL at work) that allows JWs to drop the shunning at furnerals to comfort the mourning. It's just insane. They're so self righteous they won't even follow the instructions "mother" has provided. These two are a piece of work.

I'm so sorry they made a bad situation worse. They sound like the type of people that you're better off not having in your life anyway.

55

Elders Can Hide their Own Sins from the Past-Yet Continue as Elders? Read

by flipper in

jw
friends

i was shocked ( though i probably shouldn't have been ) when reading the new elders manual concerning whether elders have to confess up about former sins from a few years earlier.

notice this on pg.

38 , paragraph 19 : it states, " if it comes to light or an appointed brother confesses that he has committed a disfellowshipping offense years in the past : the body of elders may determine he can continue to serve if the following is true : the immorality or other serious wrongdoing occured more than a few years ago, and he is genuinely repentant, recognizing that he should have come forward immediately when he sinned.

Doubting Bro

OM - Thanks for pointing that out. I missed that point. So, they dropped the double standard which is reasonable. Sir82 - exactly! Frankly, the code is pretty strong now because most of the kids don't really believe. Not sure if the elder's headaches would increase though. Seems to me that it's a whole lot easier to have them just not rat on each other than to deal with all the JCs that pop up around the under 25 group. Also, the counsel by 2 elders is much less time consuming than putting a JC together. Don't ask, don't tell!!!

17

Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux

by Juan Viejo2 in

this message is important!

timing is critical!.

those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .

Doubting Bro

I think more of these sorts of situations are out there, it's just that the local BOE either 1) figures its not worth it and caves or 2) the CO gets them removed on some trumped up charges and changes the dynamics of the BOE to tilt in his favor. I've seen it first hand, although not necessarily over KH projects. I know that the RBC (with the COs blessings and encouragement) can be quite heavy handed in "suggesting" inprovements, upgrades or new builds.

To see a couple of loyal, long term elders who had no beef with the WTS get to the point of actually suing their "brothers" is significant in my mind. I have no doubt that these guys will be df'ed for this, it's just a matter of time. But, I wonder how the local congo will view that action.

This is the major problem with the WTS. They feel they can do whatever they want to whoever they want and noone will stand up to them. Hell, they're speaking for God. It's this mentality that is counter-productive and will bite them in the butt.